tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post463585023819280150..comments2024-03-22T14:34:39.101-04:00Comments on MONDO 70: A Wild World of Cinema: SOLDIER BLUE (1970)Samuel Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00934870299522899944noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-49746032159041982672016-02-12T12:51:49.370-05:002016-02-12T12:51:49.370-05:00The Indians slaughtered at Sand Creek had nothing ...The Indians slaughtered at Sand Creek had nothing to do with the massacre of the Hungate<br />family; Chivington (Iverson in the movie) was running for political office and needed an<br />"easy" victory, and Black Kettle's band of Cheyennes were convenient.There was no firefight<br />before the massacre as was shown in the movie; there was some fighting in the creek bed<br />and Chivingtons troops did suffer a number of casualties (24 killed and 52 wounded as<br />opposed to 184 Indians--137 Cheyennes and 47 Arapahos), but many of his casualties were<br />caused by "friendly fire". A few women and children were taken prisoner but the only<br />reason they were spared was that they were married to white men, or in the case of the<br />children,were the product of such unions. Four years later the survivors of Sand Creek<br />were attacked a second time; this time by Custer and the 7th Cavalry. Unlike Chivington,<br />Custer had no idea who he was attacking; his orders said there was a hostile band of<br />Indians in the area--there was, and they were camped only a few miles away. Custer<br />simply mistook Black Kettle's band for the hostiles he was looking for. In this second <br />attack 41 Indians--38 Cheyennes, 2 Arapahos and 1 Sioux were killed--But 53 were taken<br />prisoner to serve as bargaining chips in negotiations ("You won't get your people back<br />until you agree to the following concessions...") with the Cheyennes. Custer's losses<br />were 21 killed and 14 wounded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-87029865445155159512013-10-31T00:59:48.338-04:002013-10-31T00:59:48.338-04:00"Some" White people, are always in DENIA..."Some" White people, are always in DENIAL about how they (the cowardly white ancestors) took what was NOT THEIRS IN THE FIRST PLACE! its a reminder of how DISHONORABLE and DISCRIMINATIVE and RACIST the so called Government was then, a very cowardly and Dishonorable way to make something that never belonged to them in the beginning anyway! And then today call this land theirs.... so unjustified and WRONG!!! Whom ever gets offended is just PURE IGNORANT! Id Love to read someone write something "HONEST AND BRAVE ABOUT THE WRONG DOING THAT went on 300 years ago, that to me would show HONOR!<br />~Just one Honest opinion~Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-72744767149512778342013-07-01T18:54:42.952-04:002013-07-01T18:54:42.952-04:00eddie, I don't dispute that the massacre packs...eddie, I don't dispute that the massacre packs a punch, but I suppose the question is where it lands. The point where significant violence crosses the line into exploitative gore may be a matter of subjective perception, however.<br /><br />venom, the big massacre is bracketed at the opposite end of the film from the initial massacre of Honus's cavalry unit, and Nelson stages the shots of Honus and Cresta looking down on both scenes as if to mirror each other. Meanwhile, Col. Iverson rallies the troops to punish the Indians for various atrocities actually or allegedly committed. Told from a different angle the film might simply portray a cycle of reprisal but Soldier Blue itself sides with Cresta's belief that the whites started it all and set all the examples, and it definitely portrays the massacre of Indians (including women and children, some of the women raped as well)as on another, worse level than the killing of soldiers. Samuel Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934870299522899944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-20707013313910570932013-07-01T17:10:10.973-04:002013-07-01T17:10:10.973-04:00In all fairness, there is no true uncut version. T...In all fairness, there is no true uncut version. The only people who ever saw the full unabridged finale were those in screenings prior to its theatrical release.<br /><br />The director did say in interviews that he intended the finale to be jarring. He wanted it to be a shock to the audience who weren't expecting it. An Indian friend of mine told me it was accurate for what was shown.<br /><br />It's not elaborated on in the movie, from what I recall, but the massacre was apparently revenge for past Indian attacks with one of the most severe being the Hungate Family massacre from the same year.<br /><br />I assume the book is still in print, Sam. I paid $50 for it new. Steep, yes, but it's exhaustive in its detail.venoms5https://www.blogger.com/profile/13655919099947763891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-59929896552687989692013-07-01T12:47:39.601-04:002013-07-01T12:47:39.601-04:00I disagree, the massacre scene at the end (in its ...I disagree, the massacre scene at the end (in its complete and uncut form) still packs an incredible punch (even to this day) and is without question the fulcrum of the movie.eddie lydeckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-50188152765316907412013-07-01T11:20:06.848-04:002013-07-01T11:20:06.848-04:00venom, I'm sure Nelson must have felt his was ...venom, I'm sure Nelson must have felt his was a careful balancing act, as it often is when you try to portray real horror with the tools of horror cinema. We probably understand that better now than anyone did 40 years ago and Nelson may not have realized how he was undermining his message. That book would probably be very interesting for more than its discussion of violence, though.<br /><br />Sam, there's no ambiguity about the cavalry being murderers in Soldier Blue, but the problem was the way the cinematic violence called attention to itself rather than the historical injustice it illustrated. Samuel Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934870299522899944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-85036350798281374362013-07-01T00:42:42.018-04:002013-07-01T00:42:42.018-04:00I have not seen this film, but found myself enthra...I have not seen this film, but found myself enthralled with your review, Samuel. Too bad the veracity of the bloodletting detracted from the far more vital moral issues that should be the focus of this picture. Sight unseen I would have to agree still with you on your speculation that the director couldn't portray the cavalry as murderers. This certainly isn't the first time a film has cowered away from that perception.<br /><br />Excellent review as always.Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149411832127844385.post-34045732642690500792013-06-30T23:50:44.160-04:002013-06-30T23:50:44.160-04:00There's a great book on the making of the film...There's a great book on the making of the film, Sam. It's rather expensive, but worth it in my opinion. The film was originally far more gruesome, according to Nelson. He states he cut a lot of the finale himself, feeling it was too offensive. The cut footage is described in the book, and there's a photo of the cut scene of Spotted Wolf's head being hoisted into the air among other things.venoms5https://www.blogger.com/profile/13655919099947763891noreply@blogger.com